Home Forums General Clowns to the left, jokers to the right

This topic contains 98 replies, has 18 voices, and was last updated by  Deboer 4 hours, 53 minutes ago.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 99 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #485735

    Deboer
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 570
    • Contributions: 578
    • Guardian
    • ★★★★★

    Member since
    17th February 2019

    I don’t know about you ” real Brits” but myself I am a little sad and quite a bit sick of watching how the UK  MEPs are slowly washing all chances of a good end to Brexit , down the drain . Who do they think they really represent ? I know, I know , they were chosen by the British electorate . Shame on them all !!!

    2+
    #485770

    Vegemite Kid
    Moderator
    • Topics: 321
    • Replies: 6794
    • Contributions: 7115
    • Mega Star
    • ★★★★★★★★

    Member since
    18th March 2016

    And here I am, stuck in the middle with you. They know they’ll be out of a job once Halloween rolls round.

    0
    #485783

    tigre
    Participant
    • Topics: 37
    • Replies: 7990
    • Contributions: 8027
    • Mega Star
    • ★★★★★★★★

    Member since
    23rd April 2016

    Some of them will be in for a very nice redundancy package, more than you and I will probably ever see in our bank account, I don’t suppose a lot of them really care now. :unsure:

    0
    #485784

    Jamie
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 24
    • Contributions: 25
    • Explorer

    Member since
    27th January 2019

    I really do feel embarassed that these people are representing the UK. Watching Ann Widdecomb today I almost felt sick.

    She compares Brexit to slaves being freed; there are hundreds of reasons that’s nonsense, but only one is really important: slaves don’t tend to be slaves by choice. Can anyone remind me when the EU annexed the UK and forced it to join? And there was me thinking the UK finally joined at the third time of asking…

    As for turning against our oppressors, it’s just pathetic, brain-dead drivel. A key feature of most oppressive states/nations/organisations in history is that people tend not to be allowed to stand for office for said body and then openly abuse it at the heart of its parliament, without fear of reprisal. Perhaps Widdecombe would like to visit a genuinely oppressive regime and slag it off to its leaders. Added bonus… we probably won’t hear from her again.

    Finally, the way leaders are choaen is undemocratic? I look forwards to the Brexit Party campaigning for the UK to become a republic, then.

    3+
    #485874

    Shapeshifter
    Participant
    • Topics: 52
    • Replies: 990
    • Contributions: 1042
    • Super Star
    • ★★★★★★★

    Member since
    16th March 2016

    Its a shame that the UK won’t have to give back all the subsidies, standards, and benefits they were given while in the EU.  Let the fools that voted for Brexit reap the rewards of it.

    1+
    #485892

    John P
    Participant
    • Topics: 49
    • Replies: 1120
    • Contributions: 1169
    • Super Star
    • ★★★★★★★

    Member since
    5th January 2017

    Some of them will be in for a very nice redundancy package, more than you and I will probably ever see in our bank account, I don’t suppose a lot of them really care now. :unsure:

    Acually they are not being made redundant, they choose to leave so hopefully they will get nothing!

    1+
    #485896

    Michael
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 192
    • Contributions: 201
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    23rd July 2016

    Hoorah for the Brexiteers. What a wonderful gesture of contempt for this huge bureaucratic nightmare they call the EU. Of course we never voted to join it in the first place but our membership occured without our consent. I seem to remember voting to join the common market, which I think is still a good idea, but certainly never for the EU. We became members of this nightmare by the slight of hand of our politicians. Thankfully the commonsense of the general public has shone through and we voted to leave. I’m sure that once we are out and have become a thriving country again, all those remainers with any sense will see it was the right decision.

    Those Brexit MEP’s were simply showing the EU what the British people want our politicians to do, turn our backs on the failed experiment called the EU. :good: :yahoo: :yahoo: :bye:

    1+
    #485916

    Shapeshifter
    Participant
    • Topics: 52
    • Replies: 990
    • Contributions: 1042
    • Super Star
    • ★★★★★★★

    Member since
    16th March 2016

    Methinks someone has been out in the sun too long.    B-)

    2+
    #485921

    officer crabtree
    Participant
    • Topics: 4
    • Replies: 345
    • Contributions: 349
    • Chief
    • ★★★★

    Member since
    23rd March 2016

    Quick Nurse the wet towels :cry:

    1+
    #485929

    Michael
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 192
    • Contributions: 201
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    23rd July 2016

    I see that the EU have ‘elected’ Ursula von der Leyen’ as president, a decision made behind closed doors. Apparently the parliament is up in arms because their views have been ignored. Please don’t tell me me the EU is a democratic institution.

    I certainly have been out in the sun. It was a case of going sailing in my old Normandy yawl or taking the classic Harley out for a run. The Harley won. However, this doesn’t stop me from keeping up with what is going on around me. B-) :yahoo:

    1974 Harley Sportster

    1+
    #485930

    Radon
    Participant
    • Topics: 12
    • Replies: 224
    • Contributions: 236
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    19th April 2019

    Ah the sound of a Harley! Never ridden a motorbike in my life. I’m much too sensible, a wheel on each corner for me. ;-)   However, to hear one of them go past is lovely! :good:

     

    0
    #485939

    Michael
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 192
    • Contributions: 201
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    23rd July 2016

    An old gentleman told me that a Harley was the second most beautiful sound in the world. The first was the noise of the door slamming when his cheating wife walked out on him :yahoo: :yahoo:

    But your’e right – there is something about the sound of a Harley that stirs those innermost primeval feelings.

    1+
    #485940

    Deboer
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 570
    • Contributions: 578
    • Guardian
    • ★★★★★

    Member since
    17th February 2019

    Micheal and Radon .

    I’m glad that at last, someone ( or if I understand it correctly , more than one ) knows about the positive side to Brexit .

    I would be very interested to know , what will be the improvements for the working people of the UK ?

    While in the UK , I tried to discuss this with people there , and all I got back was ” we need to get rid of the foreigners ”

    If it is going to be a great success , then maybe we should move back and be part of this “New England”? :-)

     

     

     

    1+
    #485941

    Michael
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 192
    • Contributions: 201
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    23rd July 2016

    One needs to understand the working people of the UK especially those in the Midlands and the North who voted overwhelmingly to leave and now feel betrayed by their elected representatives. I guess those of us who wish to remain just don’t understand working people.

    My views on Brexit are well known on this forum having supported the ‘Leave’ campaign since becoming a member of the ‘Save the Pound’ movement. There is little point in repeating my views on this topic.

    Debating issues with people is quite difficult. One has to start with an open mind. If all you could get back was the fact that they didn’t like foreigners  I would politely suggest that the problem is with the way you ask questions. Perhaps they saw you as a foreigner?

    My move to France had little to do with the UK economy or its membership of the EU. The UK is polluted. It is overcrowded and has problems which it looks unlikely to overcome. Doctors appointments, pot holes, the rush hour, the list is huge. I love France because it is perhaps 50 years behind the UK. I love the fact that the baker comes out and shakes my hand when I buy his bread in the morning. I love the fact that more than 5 cars in a row is a traffic jam. I’ve only paid once for a car park space in the three years I’ve been here. I love the fact that the sea is blue and not a murky brown – I used to sail on the Severn :negative:   About the only thing I’d go back to the UK for is a portion of fish and chips wrapped in an old newspaper although I realise its probably a plastic box these days. Ah, memories. :yahoo: :yahoo:

     

    1+
    #485972

    Jamie
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 24
    • Contributions: 25
    • Explorer

    Member since
    27th January 2019

    Actually there are very few areas where people voted ‘overwhelmingly‘ to leave; most areas were figures in the 50s for leave and 40s for remain.

    But Brexit is really something that was really strong in the south of England; it certainly isn’t a northern, working class thing.

    The main problem, though, is that Brexit won’t solve any of their problems. These problems mostly stem from industrial decline, which was something pursued and managed by British governments in the ’80s and ’90s, followed by a lack of investment (except from the EU, ironically, in places like Liverpool) and re-training opportunities. These have been worsened by ideological austerity pursued by Tory governments since 2010.

    None of this is the fault of the EU; they have just been used as scapegoats by politicians and the media for years now.  Even in the current leadership campaign, Hunt has been saying he has been visiting businesses and entrepreneurs in the Midlands and North and when (not if, as he admits) a no-deal destroys them, he will tell them it is worth it.

    Really? Is that what people thought they were voting for in 2016? When threats to business and the economy were dismissed as ‘project fear’ by Brexiteers, who are now embracing them as a necessary evil? When the official Leave campaign said, and I quote, ‘no-one is threatening our place in the single market’?

    Brexit is a national disgrace, an embarassment for a modern country. Most of what was promised in 2016 has been ignored or proven false (blue passports? Could have had them all along, like Croatia. £350m per week for the NHS? Absolute fiction. Control immigration? British governments have chosen to implement one of the most lax versions of free movement in the whole EU, for instance not requiring migrants to register on arrival).

    The people have turned against the idea, which is why Brexiters and more extreme Tories can see it slipping from their grasp; sooner or later this will come to a head, hopefully via a lost vote of confidence for Boris in the autumn which leads to a general election where the Tory vote is split by Farage, versus a remain pact, which is about to be tested in the 1 August by-election.

    2+
    #485989

    whatnow
    Participant
    • Topics: 168
    • Replies: 1285
    • Contributions: 1453
    • Super Star
    • ★★★★★★★

    Member since
    20th March 2016

    Let’s just get out and be done with it, I think the majority are fed up with the lies and the expense, If for some reason we actually stayed a member, I don’t think we would have many if any friends in the EU and would be punished,

    0
    #486000

    Michael
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 192
    • Contributions: 201
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    23rd July 2016

    If we look at England alone 15.2m voted leave whilst 13.3m voted remain, a majority of almost 2m for leaving. If we look at a map of the UK

    https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

    we can see a couple of areas in the north voted remain along with the west coast of Wales and areas between Gloucester and London. Other than that the rest of the country voted leave.

    As for it not being a ‘Northern’ thing, Northampton voted 58.4% leave, Derby 57.2%, Stoke on Trent 69.4% and Northumberland 54.1%.

    It seems as if it could well be a ‘northern working class thing’. Either that or a ‘lies, damn lies and statistics thing’.

    Then there’s all this business about £350m a week for the NHS – only fools believed it. There was so many lies being put about by both sides that people simply had to look at each statement and judge it on its merits. Let’s not forget the fact that the Brexiteers overspent on their campaign and lets not forget that the remainers benefited from Cameron spending £9m on sending a pamphlet to every address in the land explaining the benefits of the EU. All this is now in the past and is not worth arguing about. Its far more important that we recognise the democratic decision made by the British people in the referendum and leave the EU at the earliest opportunity. Here’s to a bright and prosperous future for an independent UK making it’s own way in the world no longer shackled to the millstone they call the EU.

    0
    #486002

    Jamie
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 24
    • Contributions: 25
    • Explorer

    Member since
    27th January 2019

    If we look at England alone 15.2m voted leave whilst 13.3m voted remain, a majority of almost 2m for leaving. If we look at a map of the UK https://www.bbc.com/news/politics/eu_referendum/results we can see a couple of areas in the north voted remain along with the west coast of Wales and areas between Gloucester and London. Other than that the rest of the country voted leave. As for it not being a ‘Northern’ thing, Northampton voted 58.4% leave, Derby 57.2%, Stoke on Trent 69.4% and Northumberland 54.1%. It seems as if it could well be a ‘northern working class thing’. Either that or a ‘lies, damn lies and statistics thing’.

    I never said northern places hadn’t voted for it, just that they hadn’t done so ‘overwhelmingly’, as is often claimed.  I then said most places had been in the 50s for leave and therefore the 40s for remain.  The figures you’ve quote follow that pattern, except Stoke (likewise, there are places where the remain vote was also in the 60s but these are the exception).

    Then there’s all this business about £350m a week for the NHS – only fools believed it. There was so many lies being put about by both sides that people simply had to look at each statement and judge it on its merits. Let’s not forget the fact that the Brexiteers overspent on their campaign and lets not forget that the remainers benefited from Cameron spending £9m on sending a pamphlet to every address in the land explaining the benefits of the EU. All this is now in the past and is not worth arguing about. Its far more important that we recognise the democratic decision made by the British people in the referendum and leave the EU at the earliest opportunity. Here’s to a bright and prosperous future for an independent UK making it’s own way in the world no longer shackled to the millstone they call the EU.

    The problem with saying it’s all in the past is, well then, why pursue Brexit?  If all the reasons for voting for it are lies, then where are the benefits?  We’re already seen loads of companies closing down operations in the UK, the Tory leadership contenders are both predicting job losses and businesses dying and they have acknowledged that the 80 or so countries we trade with via the EU will not roll over deals, leaving the UK as one of the worst countries in the world in terms of trade relations (only Mauritius is worse, I believe).  In the meantime Boris wants to cut taxes for the rich and Hunt wants to bring back foxhunting.

    I think if it is acknowledged that people were lied to in 2016, and certainly no deal is not popular (polls show it is only supported by around 24% of the country, and in the European elections the only pro-no-deal party, Brexit, was defeated by 69% of the vote), then the answer really is simple.

    An *honest* campaign, on all sides (not sure what lies remain told in 2016; most of what they said was dismissed at the time, but is being accepted as a necessary sacrifice now), followed by a three-way referendum; 1) whatever deal is negotiated in September, 2) no deal, 3) remain.  Use the STV system to establish an option that enjoys majority support, and, crucially, in the legislation enabling the referendum, establish that the result is legally-binding (which was not done in 2016, hence all the debate since).

    I say all of this as someone who voted to leave in 2016; I have no shame now in saying I consider myself to have been lied to, and exploited by rich, toffee-nosed politicians (hello, Boris!) who were only doing what was best for their own pockets, and I can see what lies were told and how ill-founded the whole campaign was.  I have also since moved to France and had a son who is half-Polish, and I now fear, genuinely, the impact of a no-deal, or even a botched Brexit, on my family’s future.  I wish I’d know that in 2016, but I’d love the opportunity to vote again.

    2+
    #486004

    Radon
    Participant
    • Topics: 12
    • Replies: 224
    • Contributions: 236
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    19th April 2019

    The sort of happening that makes UK people want to leave the European Economic Conmen. A  documentary a few years ago showed a French trawler who had more fishing quantity rights in UK waters than the British. He filled up his trawler with UK area fish. When he returned to St Malo his offloaded fish was still on the dockside when he was back out through breakwaters to the UK. Meanwhile the English fleet was tied up because of filling their minimalist quota.

    1+
    #486006

    Jamie
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 24
    • Contributions: 25
    • Explorer

    Member since
    27th January 2019

    Those people might interested to know then that the post-Brexit fishing policy drawn up by environment secretary Michael Gove again begs the question, what’s the point?

    That’s because one of the key statements hidden in the 60-page white paper is: “We do not intend to change the method for allocating existing quota.”

    In addition, I am not sure the general public is generally fussed. Yes other countries can fish in British waters, but British fishermen have access to hundreds of thousands of kilometres of EU-27 waters! As fishing represents around 0.1% of the economy, those that care are a loud minority, who will find Brexit as disappointing as everyone else based on the plans for the future.

    1+
    #486008

    Bob
    Participant
    • Topics: 5
    • Replies: 51
    • Contributions: 56
    • Adventurer
    • ★★

    Member since
    13th October 2016

    Such a bright future that you won’t come back to the UK to share it with us.

    Let’s face it, the brexiteers have shafted the UK big time for their own reasons. I don’t see them losing their jobs or suffering from the downturn in the economy.

    In the meantime think on this, you currently have a right to live in France. Come brexit you become an immigrant.

    1+
    #486010

    Jamie
    Participant
    • Topics: 1
    • Replies: 24
    • Contributions: 25
    • Explorer

    Member since
    27th January 2019

    We’re already immigrants, and I am proud of that; looking at the life my son leads now, with lots of space to play in, fresh air and a lovely school, I am happy we came.

    Come Brexit, the difference is we may be illegal immigrants.

    1+
    #486015

    Deboer
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 570
    • Contributions: 578
    • Guardian
    • ★★★★★

    Member since
    17th February 2019

    Debating issues with people is quite difficult. One has to start with an open mind. If all you could get back was the fact that they didn’t like foreigners  I would politely suggest that the problem is with the way you ask questions. Perhaps they saw you as a foreigner?

    I agree  Micheal , my mind is very open . I asked the question to members of my own and my wifes family .My family live in Surrey and my wifes family ( her father was a coal miner ) live in the North of England .

    But still :”I would be very interested to know , what will be the improvements for the working people of the UK ?” No answer as yet !

    I agree with you , if you compare the cities of the UK with the rural areas of France , then we were 50 years back in time when we arrived , but probably vice versa too ?

    I used to paddle in the streams of Surrey , but things change . ” our little stream ” here in France is becoming polluted too  and too warm , it is not just the UK that has the enviromental problems .

    I hope you are right about the UK , but I doubt it very much . So I will toast to the same as you for the bright and prosporous future of the UK ,but add ,thank goodness we are in France ! :-)

    1+
    #486018

    Radon
    Participant
    • Topics: 12
    • Replies: 224
    • Contributions: 236
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    19th April 2019

    but British fishermen have access to hundreds of thousands of kilometres of EU-27 waters!

    You would make a good politician Jamie you tell the truth BUT! The EU waters have been fished to death. Good try though. Keep trying.

    1+
    #486035

    Deboer
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 570
    • Contributions: 578
    • Guardian
    • ★★★★★

    Member since
    17th February 2019

    C’mon Radon you can do better than that?

    But still :”I would be very interested to know , what will be the improvements for the working people of the UK ?” No answer as yet ! :-)  

    0
    #486038

    Radon
    Participant
    • Topics: 12
    • Replies: 224
    • Contributions: 236
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    19th April 2019

    Deboer you are another wind up merchant on this forum. What more can I do but state the truth?

    1+
    #486041

    Deboer
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 570
    • Contributions: 578
    • Guardian
    • ★★★★★

    Member since
    17th February 2019

    Radon, I posted about Brexit , You ” liked ” the reply from Micheal  that said it was a good thing that the UK was leaving the EU . I asked what good would that bring to the workers of the UK . Up till now I have had no answer .

    I am certainly not a ” wind up merchant ” but just ask that people that post or agree with a post , have a reason for saying what they say , that is something that I find normal . To descend to name calling , is not good for a discussion and I would never do that to anyone else that posts on this forum . :rose:

    You call me what you like , I have been called a lot worse ! :yes:

    2+
    #486043

    Radon
    Participant
    • Topics: 12
    • Replies: 224
    • Contributions: 236
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    19th April 2019

    I asked what good would that bring to the workers of the UK .

    We wouldn’t have to pay  your inflated subsidies for a start.

    0
    #486052

    Michael
    Participant
    • Topics: 9
    • Replies: 192
    • Contributions: 201
    • Scout
    • ★★★

    Member since
    23rd July 2016

    We’ve had all the arguments for and against and endured hours of debate both in the media and on this forum. Then we voted in the referendum. Now we have people who don’t like the outcome trying to rerun the process. What part of ‘democracy’ do they have difficulty understanding. There is no point in going over and over the past. We have to accept the democratic decision and move on. Leaving the EU is going to be a time fraught with problems but also with huge, exciting possibilities.

    It may be that Gove decides we should accept the fish quotas but the point is this, if the public disagree with him then he can be voted out. If the EU decide the quotas we can do nothing about it.

    0
    #486058

    Deboer
    Participant
    • Topics: 8
    • Replies: 570
    • Contributions: 578
    • Guardian
    • ★★★★★

    Member since
    17th February 2019

    We’ve had all the arguments for and against and endured hours of debate both in the media and on this forum. Then we voted in the referendum. Now we have people who don’t like the outcome trying to rerun the process. What part of ‘democracy’ do they have difficulty understanding. There is no point in going over and over the past. We have to accept the democratic decision and move on. Leaving the EU is going to be a time fraught with problems but also with huge, exciting possibilities.

    OK fair enough . I don’t want to change the referendum and had hoped that it would have been all done and dusted by now . It just seems that the way it is going , things are not going to get better for those that voted( in or out) for the lower paid parts of the population in the UK. I still can’t see the benifit of leaving the EU , ” democracy” doesn’t really excist in the UK or the EU , but the EU has a better chance of keeping our civilisation together ( the one that you love so much )

    My point and my original question was about the way that the UK MEPs are making things worse . I think it would have been better for the UK to have left already but the obvious reason that it didn’t is the small minded in-fighting in the Tory party and the lack of opposition .

    I fear for the worst in the UK , we will see . :-)

    1+
Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 99 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.