This topic contains 70 replies, has 11 voices, and was last updated by  tigre 1 year, 9 months ago.

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  • #299542

    Vegemite Kid
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    Watching a fascinating programme (it’s the ads now) about the gypsies in France – les gitans. Talk about keeping women in their place; the girls dream of nothing but getting married, but once married, their role is to serve and occupy themselves with their man and their children. No feminism with them, the male children are the kings and the female children have no future other than being wives and mothers. Machism at its finest and not at all what ‘we’ are used to.

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    #299557

    Blue velvet
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    That maybe ok if that’s what  the girls want, AND , the men treat them properly, not as slaves with no brains or opinions or choices!  i.e Cherished!  :unsure:

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    #299565

    Anonymous
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    Not being kicked around, by a celebrity :scratch:

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    #299568

    Anonymous
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    There is a lot of different communities, the one I know, I can tell you, women’s got the last word !

    P.S : one of my cousin is one of them, his choice, not mine ! Just be carefull of “clichés” !

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    #299597

    Anonymous
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    Have to admit that gypsies/travellers are not liked by most English folk. They ruin the countryside by parking up illegally and causing damage and leaving filth behind. Crime seems to rise when they arrive and the authorities bend over backwards not to offend them because that would be against their human rights.

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    #299607

    Blue velvet
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    Yes, they have got a terrible reputation now, park up in school play grounds, hospital car parks and also a local golf club, on the special Greens !

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    #299610

    Anonymous
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    One of Dads GREAT Friends, was a traveller, anyone Dad respected was ok by me, don’t Generalize :heart:

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    #299613

    Anonymous
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    Be carefull of clichés BE, my cousin worked all his life, never screwed anybody. I agree there is plenty of badies but, as always, never generalise ! They are good people everywhere. For him, it was a way of life !

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    #299616

    Blue velvet
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    Yes I agree Good and bad in all communities, but have seen evidence on tv just these last few weeks of the destruction caused by some.

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    #299619

    Anonymous
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    It’s like for everything, we always heard about the bad one. Such a pity the good one are not put in light a bit more ! And I do agree, I can’t stand the ones who destroy everything on their trip !

     

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    #299634

    Anonymous
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    TV wields Enormous (to much?) power over, Public opinion, look at elections, get the media moguls onside, no contest :cry:

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    #299640

    Anonymous
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    It’s on TV, in the D/Wail etc, it must be TRUE, saw it on the Internet, well there You Go Then!!!

    They want viewing figures, sales, advertising, not too fussy about ‘exact’ truth!

    Keep Your Own Council Too.

    Try not to, let Anyone/Media make, influence Your decisions consider all the information ‘You have available’ :-) .

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    #299672

    Blue velvet
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    Ok Bill .  :rose:

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    #299837

    Pete James
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    Watching a fascinating programme (it’s the ads now) about the gypsies in France – les gitans. Talk about keeping women in their place; the girls dream of nothing but getting married, but once married, their role is to serve and occupy themselves with their man and their children. No feminism with them, the male children are the kings and the female children have no future other than being wives and mothers. Machism at its finest and not at all what ‘we’ are used to.

    You don’t think you are ‘overreacting’ do you VK ?

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    #299934

    Jazzy
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    I’m a bit concerned at your choice of language VK – ‘ keeping women in their place’ implies that that is where they should be.

    Also ‘machism at it’s finest’ – shouldn’t that be ‘misogyny at it’s worst’ ? B-)

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    #299949

    Breadhead
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    I stand to be corrected if I’m wrong but I think VK supports feminism and equal rights for women, ok his choice of words may be wrong but it strikes me that he is probably amazed that women are controlled in this way in this day and age, I certainly am!

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    #299961

    tigre
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    It’s interesting how we on this forum read and perceive posts. I read VK’s and it didn’t even cross my mind that he was implying that’s where women should be, to me he was just  describing what he thought was  the Gypsy males attitude towards them.

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    #299964

    tigre
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    I hadn’t picked up on your post, Breadhead, before I posted, but totally agree with you.

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    #300143

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    There is 4 differents main groups of Gypsies :

    Les Manouches, les Sinti, they are europeans but coming from India. They’ve been living in France for centuries now. Some of them become wellknown : Django Reinhart for the music, Torino Zigler a painter, Bouglione and Zavata for the circus.

    Les Gitans, from spain (Andalous or Catalans), they living more in the south of France.

    Les Roms, mainly living in central europe (Balkan), their origins are from North India, Gange Valley. They arrived in europe a 1000 years ago. They’ve started now to travel in France, and they are not the easiest to live with…

    – Les Yéniches, some of them claim a Celtic origin but they are more likely descendants or itinerants Jewish traders. They adopted this style of life in the 17th century and mixed up a lot with Manouches.

    And then, others like my cousin, who didn’t want to live the way we do, as long as he is happy and not doing any harm to others …. :unsure:

     

     

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    #300149

    Anonymous
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    I would add Irish travellers, who are, often mistaken for and referred to, as Gypsies. I have had experience of them (in Ireland) descending on a shop, en masse, to shoplift, like locusts, not suggesting they are all the same, but this I have seen, in two shops I worked in.

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    #300155

    Breadhead
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    If Gypsies want to live the way they do I have no great problem with that, in fact I can see some of the attraction.  All they need to do is respect other people, their property and their land and stop drawing attention to themselves.  I know that all Gypsies/Travellers are not trouble, the problem like so many other sectors in society, they all get tarred with the same brush.  Like Babeth said it’s a pity the good one’s don’t get a mention.  I recall one group of Travellers who came to Northampton, they took up a lay-by and stayed for about one week.  When they left the site was completely clear apart 30-40 black bin bags stacked neatly by the side of the road for collection, now that’s the way to do it!

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    #300160

    Jazzy
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    Lighten up folks, it was only tongue in cheek, hence the smiley…. :rose:

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    #300183

    tigre
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    I don’t think anyone is getting hot under the collar, Jazzy, just expressing their view on how they read VK’s post, some of us have just had a different opinion on it to yours. Couldn’t see a smilie on your post, may be my tablet hasn’t picked it up. :unsure:

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    #300207

    Breadhead
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    What T said  :unsure:

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    #300329

    Anonymous
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    Have just read through this post – when I read VK’s opening post I read it that he was relating what the programme he was watching told of the people about whose lives the programme was based – I didn’t read it as his own opinion.

    I read all the following discussions about gypsies and as with all nations/creeds of people there are good and bad of all, it’s very tempting to judge the whole of that nation/creed by one’s own personal experience and each has their own personal story to recount, those with an experience of the good will defend, those with an experience of bad will tend to want to tar all with the same brush. Personally I prefer to judge people as individuals, some I like instantly, some I do not, but it has nothing to do with their origins.

    As Bill points out not everything seen on TV and in the media is fact, they will glorify anything that makes good reading and is good commerce, especially if it relates to anyone in the public eye.

    Mr. F. spent a lot of time with the gypsies in his youth, they were very kind to him, we have also known of others who were proper villains, but so have we known people of non gypsy origin who were villains. Best not to judge a book by it’s cover I always think, but by personal experience.

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    #300529

    Vegemite Kid
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    Been at work today so didn’t have time to read all responses until now. No, I don’t think I was overreacting, Pete, I was just stating what my wife and I both thought and, as it happens, what another couple at work thought, they having seen the programme as well.  It wasn’t so much as Breadhead says, that I was amazed that women are controlled in this way in this day and age, it was more that they were shown to be totally accepting of their position and role. Examples; a 12 year old was asked if she had ‘un amoureux’, her reply was no, it’s forbidden; the women served the men at the table and waited until they had eaten before eating themselves; one pregnant young woman expressed the wish to have five or six children, because that’s the way it is.

    The men were not shown as misogynist in any way, Jazzy, just very macho. The two terms are not the same at all, as I’m sure you know.

    The distinction does need to be made, though, between gypsies (“gitans”), most of whom were shown in the programme living in houses and having full-time jobs, and travellers (“gens de voyage”), who tend more towards large caravans and expensive cars and campsites, legal or otherwise, and whose income is not always on the right side of the law.

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    #300536

    tigre
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    Some women like to live like that, serving their men etc, not just the Gypsy women. Nothing wrong with it, as long as they are happy with it.

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    #300539

    Jazzy
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    It was the sunglasses and tongue smiley, very strange as I can see it quite clearly on my device – very strange… :unsure:

    Oh well, as has been said already it’s funny how differently  things can be perceived depending on who’s reading them….

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    #300547

    Vegemite Kid
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    I have no problem with women who choose such a way of life either, tigre, as long as it’s a choice freely made. There is at least one member of this site who believes that a woman’s place is in the home and if that’s his wife’s choice, why not?

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    #300554

    tigre
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    I saw that one, Jazzy, thought you meant just an ordinary pleasant  smiley, not the cocky  one blowing gum.

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