Indifference in the UK

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  • Anonymous
    13th August 2019 at 10:54 am #493192

    I appreciate that outlawing you carrying a penknife may impact on your civil rights, but you need to start somewhere,whenever have you when walking down the High St or in Asda,Tesco’s or any retailer found it necessary to use your penknife, not very often if at all methinks.

    Used my swarmy the other day in Leclerc to cut a piece of saucisson because I was feeling peckish (don’t worry, it was a saucisson that we had in our trolley and were paying for). And because it’s a swarmy, when Mme VK  said her belt wasn’t tight enough, I used the pointy bit to make a new hole in her belt so she could tighten it. Oh, yes, I’m reminded that when one of the branches of my glasses was loose, I used the tiny screwdriver inside the corkscrew to tighten it. All those things happened outside the house when we were out and about.

    13th August 2019 at 11:12 am #493196

    The case highlighted by Fitter is a very sad one. However, it is not at all typical and is misleading if considered in isolation. The number of prisoners doing time for murder is small. Far more are in for drug offences, so perhaps one should also highlight the many offenders that have successfully been through rehab, turned their own lives around and are now helping others to rebuild their lives.

    A child  who is subjected to, or witnesses domestic violence and lives in deprived conditions has little chance in life. His destiny is clearly mapped out for him from an early age. He is the “criminal scum” of the future. Deprived conditions breed people with no future, no hope, and consequently no self respect. Crime is then an inevitability. Personally, I think it’s important to look at the reasons for each crime on an individual basis rather than just categorising people and taking the “lock the bastards up” approach.

    Rehabilitation doesn’t work for everyone, but then neither do deterrents.  There is a place for both.

     

    Anonymous
    13th August 2019 at 11:41 am #493200

    A child who is subjected to, or witnesses domestic violence and lives in deprived conditions has little chance in life. His destiny is clearly mapped out for him from an early age. He is the “criminal scum” of the future. Deprived conditions breed people with no future, no hope, and consequently no self respect. Crime is then an inevitability.

    It’s not necessarily the case; there are plenty of teenagers who, with the right input from the right people, succeed in escaping their environments and making something of their lives.

    13th August 2019 at 11:41 am #493201

    Rehabilitation for drug offenders has been around for some years now, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. If for example you put a person who has raped and killed a child through rehabilitation, I wonder how and when you would know they won’t  re-offend?

    Anonymous
    13th August 2019 at 12:12 pm #493222

    There is no evidence that harsh punishment reduces crime rates. All it does is appease the public appetite for retribution. There have been many studies into this. Time and time again Politicians tap into this appetite, punishments to fit the crime etc, to get votes and nothing changes.

     

    Quite correct. After Boris offering his harsher sentencing, Sky News brought out a report that stated that there is no proof whatsoever that longer sentences would prove to be a deterrent.
    Maidstone prison might or might have been as said but it is a C category and as such they are normally more lax, unlike A & B category prisons. The fact is quite simple, it is not so much about life in prison  but the prisoners liberty is the factor that makes prison life uncomfortable. Imagine yourself in prison and only occasional visits allowed and you are not allowed the freedom to go where you please in the outside World and that is your sentence and no matter how much TV you can watch, or how much leisure you can get in prison, none of that gives you freedom. Don’t believe all you read in the right wing rags, they are out to sell papers to people who love that kind of reporting (and Boris knows that), prison is NOT the luxury place they would like you to believe.
    Danny is right Fitter, an isolated case does not not in anyway make it normal and as for longer sentences if just for keeping the prisoner in longer to protect the public, that I am afraid is nonsense, logic tells you no matter how long he stays inside, the prisoner comes out one day and might re-offend, so the timing means nothing. As stated in a report by Sky News, longer sentences do not deter an offender, that is a fact.

    To be released you have to go through a very stringent parole, not once but maybe several times until you are thought to be safe to be released. It appears that on occasion the parole board make errors, but rarely and Liberal philsophy is not a word one would use with any parole board.

    13th August 2019 at 12:32 pm #493225

    It’s not necessarily the case; there are plenty of teenagers who, with the right input from the right people, succeed in escaping their environments and making something of their lives.

    Yes, you’re quite right VK  and if that input was available to more kids from an earlier age perhaps more of them would be able to do the same.

    13th August 2019 at 12:53 pm #493228

    Rehabilitation for drug offenders has been around for some years now, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. If for example you put a person who has raped and killed a child through rehabilitation, I wonder how and when you would know they won’t re-offend?

    The case of Venables who co-tortured Jamie Bulger comes to mind tigre.

    13th August 2019 at 1:56 pm #493254

    Babeth has a very valid point about psychiatric hospitals, I worked in the patient’s bank of one such hospital in Maidstone and within that hospital was a ‘secure unit’ for perpetrators of crimes brought about by a psychiatric illness, they closed the hospital to build a housing estate, I don’t know where they sent the patients from the unit (I had moved away by then) but many of the non criminal patients were sent to inappropriate homes.

    Anonymous
    13th August 2019 at 2:47 pm #493268

    Rehabilitation for drug offenders has been around for some years now, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn’t. If for example you put a person who has raped and killed a child through rehabilitation, I wonder how and when you would know they won’t re-offend?

    It has but not to the extent as it’s used in Norway. The raping and killing of a child is thankfully a rare crime and I’m in no way suggesting that the perpetrator of these kind of crimes can be rehabiliated.

    There will always be dangerous people who need to be removed from society for public safety but these people don’t make up the majority of the prison population.

    13th August 2019 at 6:17 pm #493310

    Pete, yes I remember the Bulger case it was horrific and Venables has made headlines since linked to child pornography.

    Jazzy, I saw that documentary on Norwegian prisons, it was quite impressive. I picked up on a website called ‘The Nordic Page’ and it states, although total crime has decreased in Norway, burglary and robbery in the main, they say sexual intercourse and rape of children under 14 yrs has increased by 18.4%, which is most alarming if the article is true. The article was 2017, may be the figures have decreased in the last two years!

    VK, couldn’t you have just opened a packet of biscuits? :whistle:

    13th August 2019 at 7:53 pm #493329

    A news item from the West Country this evening reports a “county lines” incident involving youngsters being organised by an inmate of Wandsworth prison over his illicit mobile phone.  It appears the prison service or whatever privatised outfit are running it have never heard of mobile signal jammers.  Quite reasonably priced on the internet.  If we can’t stop this sort of thing happening inside prisons we might as well not lock them up at all.  Just let them do their thing outside.  Then the developers can turn the prisons into luxury flats and turn a handsome profit.

    13th August 2019 at 8:01 pm #493334

    I don’t know how many of you read your local UK papers in the area where you were before coming to France.

    I do, and it’s clear that crime and violence is getting out of hand in my old locality.

    But you all think that there is an alternative to putting criminals in prison, and that it works.

    Which on current evidence – it plainly doesn’t.

     

     

    13th August 2019 at 8:45 pm #493349

    The UK has a higher usage of cocaine and crack cocaine than the USA, more than double that of France. Obviously the crime problem is mostly drug driven. Looks like the drug war has been lost, all it is now is try and contain it the best you can.

    Anonymous
    13th August 2019 at 8:51 pm #493351

    Pete, yes I remember the Bulger case it was horrific and Venables has made headlines since linked to child pornography. Jazzy, I saw that documentary on Norwegian prisons, it was quite impressive. I picked up on a website called ‘The Nordic Page’ and it states, although total crime has decreased in Norway, burglary and robbery in the main, they say sexual intercourse and rape of children under 14 yrs has increased by 18.4%, which is most alarming if the article is true. The article was 2017, may be the figures have decreased in the last two years! VK, couldn’t you have just opened a packet of biscuits? :whistle:

    Glad I’ve got you googling and finding out again tigre. :good:

    I’m not sure what documentary you’re referring to as I read about it online but could you give me a link as would be interested in watching it?  As to sexual crimes to children which you seem to be focusing on, I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make here as I’ve stated numerous times that rehabilitation isn’t the answer in every case and have been referring to overall crime rates in Norway. I don’t think you can just dismiss crime rate reductions in burglary and robbery as they cause a huge amount of distress.

    Anonymous
    13th August 2019 at 9:01 pm #493354

    I don’t know how many of you read your local UK papers in the area where you were before coming to France. I do, and it’s clear that crime and violence is getting out of hand in my old locality. But you all think that there is an alternative to putting criminals in prison, and that it works. Which on current evidence – it plainly doesn’t.

    Eh? Where is this alternative to prison that doesn’t work being carried out in the UK? Last I heard they were still chucking people in prison over there…

    13th August 2019 at 9:11 pm #493357

    The drug problem has been there for many years, it is just seems worse now.

    25 years ago we used to watch drugs being sold out of the back of a car we logged all the car numbers and reported the matter to the police.

    They did nothing and simply said to us do you want your windows putting in.

    this went on for weeks and nothing changed until we complained to the Chief Constable and then all hell was let loose and we got visits from all sorts of people to which we said you were not interested before so take the details and go away,

    One of the druggies lived around the corner and when ever he had a holiday at the taxpayers expense the council kept the house for him, that was until we got the CC involved, the entire matter just stank.

    Personally I would have criminals  tattooed on their foreheads with the type of offence so at least then they would know who to go to for the drugs etc.

    I would also group different types of crimes in prisons with the same type of criminal and the more serious the crime the farther from their home they would be incarcerated.

    13th August 2019 at 9:38 pm #493369

    Jazzy, I honestly can’t remember when I watched to documentary, but there was one showing the prison system in Norway, it would have been either last year or possibly the year before. I highlight the sexual crimes on under age children because I personally feel these criminals should pay heavily for these crimes, I think life should be life without parole and feel this is too good for them. As for mentioning the increase in this sort of crime in Norway I just thought it was interesting, no more than that. Something I did pick up on when reading different sites was that a high percentage of  inmates in Norway were non nationals and it was hard to  monitor them once out on the streets again as they often didn’t stay in Norway, this made it impossible to say if they re-offended, which may dfistort the figures  regarding criminals that didn’t.

    Anonymous
    14th August 2019 at 6:57 pm #493489

    I guess there’s always a few holes to be picked in any set of statistics but undoubtedly the overriding conclusion to be drawn is that the Norway model works better than the US one.

    As for drugs there’s also evidence that legalization reduces crime rates (seems logical too) and doesn’t lead to increased drug usage.

    14th August 2019 at 7:05 pm #493493

    There is absolutely, no evidence, to prove that legalizing drugs does not increase the crime rate, it is pure supposition, it is just a cop-out, instead of being hard, on drugs it is easier to turn a blind eye and pretend it is all normal and harmless.

    14th August 2019 at 7:13 pm #493502

    Hard on drug’s? Its a war that the security forces are not winning. You’re fighting against addicts, vast amounts of cash and totally ruthless people. You need to treat the addict’s, seize the cash and do in the totally ruthless people.

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