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  • #474808

    tigre
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    No, not a throw away line as you put it, just my opinion from news coverage I’ve seen, you just have to google, ‘ is Donald Tusk corrupt’ the same with Junker and quite a lot of info comes up on them, now whether true or not some of this info is I couldn’t possibly say, but it shouts typical politicians, most think they’re God’s gift!!

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    #474818

    Deboer
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    Sorry I’m lost here, if Farage gets in he will be part of the government…how does that work out? You stated earlier that the 7 defeats he faced are all in the past, to me it tells me what the voters think of him getting to the house and I don’t see that changing tbh.

    Just to show how I was thinking when I wrote about Mr Farage becoming part of the government ( talking about UK elections of course)

    At the next election there will be no majority party , so a coalition government will have to be formed . Seeing as the tories won’t govern with labour , then there are very few possibilities and if the “winner” , I say if , is the Brexit party , then it is normal that they would be in the government and their leader in a high position .

    Seeing as you don’t think that Mr Farage will get any seats in the house of parliament then I suppose it is difficult to follow my supposition ? :-)

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    #474821

    Roger Wood
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    OK you moved from EU to UK and I never saw the join ;-)   No I do not see Farage gaining a seat but he won’t be as arrogant in the commons where he has to use etiquette toward his “honourable” friends. If he thinks he can be as arrogant and smile with that sickly grin in the house, he will soon realise that too many and he will not be too well endeared to many of the MP’s. Whatever we think about the commons and its MP’s, there is a standard that is maintained by the Speak, can anyone see John Bercow allowing Farage the same standard he thinks is acceptable in Brussels, as I don’t.

     

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    #474829

    Roger Wood
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    No, not a throw away line as you put it, just my opinion from news coverage I’ve seen, you just have to google, ‘ is Donald Tusk corrupt’ the same with Junker and quite a lot of info comes up on them, now whether true or not some of this info is I couldn’t possibly say, but it shouts typical politicians, most think they’re God’s gift!!

    I asked Google if either were ever found guilty of fraud, or corruption and nothing came up, some accusations from those who wish to see one, or the other lifted out of the EU but no more than that. Strong words “Gods Gift” perhaps you know a way of running either the EU and the Commons without MEP’s or MP’s? Never  seen many politicians who acted like they were Gods Gift, some yes but not many percentage wise. They have a job to do, not too well in the last three years I must say but many don’t really get seen either on Televison, radio or newspapers do they?

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    #474832

    Jazzy
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    Google can be a dangerous thing. Google any idea no matter how ludicrous and you will find some ‘evidence’ to back it up and then it’s very easy to find yourself in a possibly dangerous echo chamber. This is how people get radicalized.

    I dare say I could google ‘Donald Tusk not corrupt’ and find lots of ‘proof’ he isn’t.

    All we can do is follow media news, but the independent outlets.nI’m sure there are those who have written off all outlets but personally I don’t think we have reached that dismal stage yet.

    Probably best imo to follow things on an ongoing basis on respected media outlets rather than making rash comments and then relying on google to back them up.

     

     

     

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    #474844

    Futureman
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    In life you come across  both people with brains and people who are Brain dead. The people with brains look at things logically while the cheeki brain dead simply believe whatever they are fed.

    Farages preferred option is out no deal WTO, this option produces the biggest profits for his speculating mates. The deal and reasonable stability option means very little profit. No deal WTO means full border controls as in holdups at the border’s, means out of open skies, back to international flights to the big international airport’s. There is not one single country in the world that trades using only WTO terms so no one has any idea on how it will work out. Then we have the trade deal bit, trade deals take several year’s to complete, no one will want to sign a comprehensive trade agreement with the UK until they know what the UK’s future relationship with the EU looks like. But what the heck, if the idiots want to go with the Farage unicorns and chase rainbows then let them, I’ve no idea how long it will take them to realise unicorn’s don’t exist, and you can chase a rainbow for ever and never ever catch it. Maybe they will never realise.

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    #474847

    Marmite
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    I agree googling can be mis informative,confusing..even dangerous.

    we are all in a special position…we see this from more than one side..we have loyalties …we live in Europe ..but I personally will always have the greatest affection for the uk.I don’t want to see Nigel Farage mislead the population…and that’s exactly what he did.

    Driving through France and seeing ,increasingly…Frexit written ..sprayed all over…Europe isn’t perfect ..it’s a work in progress..better to be within fighting for a fair ..non corrupt Europe.

    Marine Lepen …watch how the European elections pan out.

     

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    #474865

    Jazzy
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    You can dress it up any way you want to justify it but this current resurgence of the far right in Europe is a very worrying thing indeed. WW2 is quickly going out of living memory now and any influence of those directly involved in that conflict has finished. We are destined to repeat the mistakes of history.

    I think we are gearing up for another major conflict, it’s in our nature. That together with impending ecological and climate catastrophe doesn’t bode well for our future. Perhaps that is our destiny and planet Earth back to factory settings….

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    #474871

    Jamie
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    The main reason, as someone mentioned above, Nigel Farage won’t be in government is because the Brexit Party is disproportionately taking support from the Conservative Party.

    As such, the main beneficiary will be Labour as the ‘right wing’ vote will be split, with Tory eurosceptic voters going to the BP and the remainder staying with a much smaller Tory Party.

    It will be the opposite of the situation in 1983, where the ‘left wing’ vote was split between the SDP and Labour, which created a large Tory majority.

    Looking at the most recent *Westminster* polls (not polls for the European elections, where, like local elections, people tend to ‘protest vote’ more), if there was a general election soon Labour would get 34%, the Tories 25% and Brexit Party 10%.

    That would produce a Labour majority of 28.  If it was slightly less successful for Labour, they still look dead certs to be the largest party – and a coalition with the SNP would almost certainly follow, meaning…

    …the net result of all of Farage’s efforts will be a government that does the opposite of what he wants.

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    #474884

    tigre
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    Yes, I think Google can be dangerous, that’s why I said I couldn’t possibly say whether the info was true, the same as I can’t say what I read wasn’t true. I’m sure there’s no corruption whatsoever within the EU! ;-)

    Any suggestions where one can seek reliable info regarding politics, please?

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    #474895

    Futureman
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    You don’t need reliable info regarding politics, you simply look at it realistically, make your own mind up.

    As far as corruption is concerned within the EU you need to separate the admin side from the member states, as most of the problems lie with the member states or individuals living in member states. Individuals like olive growers who lie about grubbing up trees, or farmers who claim set aside then rent their fields to pop up pig farmer’s, or farmers who claim set aside but set aside nothing. Orban is a prime example of how it work’s, claim EU funding for a project then siphon off the cash and use it on a pet scheme for yourself. The admin side of the EU employs less staff than Derbyshire county council, and it seems spend most of their time trying to sift out the fraudsters. Jazzy, nationalists cause war’s, the we’re better than you brigade.

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    #474910

    Marmite
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    I suppose no system is perfect..cheating will always proliferate…greed is ever present.

    i support Europe…but not blindly..the idea ,the principal is amazing.

    For me ..they have moved too fast..too much integration…without considering the nationalities involved.

    My friends here ask me what’s happening with Brexit…my answer is I wish I knew.

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    #474969

    Futureman
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    They moved too fast against the better judgement of people like Junker. It was the Brit’s lobbying on behalf of the Americans that got the eastern Europeans fast tracked in when they weren’t ready. The Americans were worried that the eastern Europeans might end up in some new Russian run trading block.

     

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    #474985

    Radon
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    Interesting but I live in France. Marine Le Pen for President I hope.

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    #474990

    Fitter
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    Interesting but I live in France. Marine Le Pen for President I hope.

    MLP is looking like the only alternative to the current mob of disappointing centrists in 2022.

    Maybe the French voter will think “We voted for Macron’s lot to avoid MLP – look how that turned out!”

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    #475000

    Pete James
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    The worrying thing is that i’m beginning to think that way…..

    Maybe she is what the country needs ?

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    #475004

    Marmite
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    A system that encourages voters to vote one way in order to prevent democracy…can’t quite get my head around it.

    essentially macron was elected to prevent MLP ,not because he was ever considered able.

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    #475026

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    So , if I understand it correctly , no one really believes that Mr Farage will even get seats in the UK parliament  and absolutely no chance at all into the British government ?  Sounds like Hilary Clinton supporters to me !

    Next scenario , for Jamie et al. The UK eventually leaves the EU , one way or another . The SNP declares UDI and the UK becomes DUK ,the tories manage to stay on until 2022 when the next election is planned , (they seem to be able to drag everything out for years)  Mr Corbyn gets more seats than the tories ( whoever their leader will be) but not enough to govern , so what happens then ? :-)

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    #475030

    Futureman
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    Nothing.

    What about this one. All the UK has to offer is unhindered tariff free access to the EU, has nothing else to offer that can’t be found elsewhere. Foreigners invest in the UK mainly because of the unhindered tariff free access to the EU. What happens when the UK loses that unhindered tariff free access? Unemployment goes up, austerity continues, no super duper unicorn trade deal’s, who gets the blame for all that? The Tories, or that nice Mr Farage?.

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    #475033

    Deboer
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    Nothing ?

    You mean it just carries on , as it does now ? :yahoo:

    You seem to think that I like Mr Farage , I think he is a spiv , but then Mr Trump is a con-man too and he has charge of 11 aircraft carriers around the world .

    The reality is , that nothing is being done to solve the stalemate in the UK and I believe that Mr Farage will get a lot of following , just for that reason, not because he is any better than those already in power. :-)

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    #475048

    Roger Wood
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    Deboer, firstly Hilary Clinton supporters, sure you can do better than that, that’s plain barmy, I for one couldn’t stand the woman but then I couldn’t stand Trump and still can’t. Our American friends are highly embarrassed  to have him as President but there you go.

    So EU elections over where of course Farage can’t get in the Commons. Now we turn to the GE in the UK, what party will he represent, can’t stand on a Brexit ticket when we leave, or perhaps he will use the Brexit party as that gets his fans excited and he can’t go back to UKIP,  they are now slagging each other off. Farage’s supporters have an average age of 55+ it states in a couple of papers, so with averages, there’s going to be plenty well in to their 60’s. I have nothing against older people voting (I am one) but where are his young voters? Well personally I believe the majority of them have a lot more common sense  and can see right through the chancer. Be very interesting indeed to finally read his party policies, which weirdly he will let his spporters and the rest of us know AFTER the EU election….

    And I now read on here that Marie Le Pen will be good for France, Farage, Le Pen goodness me how desperate has politics become when those two alone can be seen as good for their countries, beats me, I think I’ll go for a walk to clear my head.  Visions of massive “political” rallies keep entering my head, I sadly wonder how long until a party salute is aired……. :negative:

     

     

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    #475060

    Janet
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    I hope that Marine Le Pen will not be the next President of France. I still think that Macron’s party will  get a lot of support even though he has made some mistakes and the centre-right Republicans should do better than the last time when the Fillon scandal was at its height.

    I regard Farage as even worse than Mme Le Pen and much more dangerous.

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    #475065

    Pete James
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    Yes Roger, my comments were a tad tongue in cheek but seriously, what alternatives are there in France (or the UK ) at the moment ?

    MlP is as good as  advocating a Frexit referendum with economic and immigration etc policies disguised here and there. The more right-wing politicians who would now be in power but for the antics of a welshwoman are all but snuffed out and the PS are non-existant. That leaves a well-intentioned I believe but naiive Macron who is stumbling through his term of office.

     

     

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    #475070

    Roger Wood
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    Being France, Pete, someone else will probably come along just as Macron did. Marine le Pen will I imagine again arrive in the final around before, just as she has done before and her Father before her, get battered in that final vote. Farage is for Farage, a selfish egoist purely in politics to be in opposition to other parties. He has no policies, no ideas other than whipping up a frenzy with his supporters. Any policy, if any, he brings up will be dissected and shown to be absolutely rubbish and unworkable. I think he may well ride off in to the sunset after the next GE in the UK, saying once again his work is finished. I think he has retired from politics almost as many times as he has failed to get in to the House…

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    #475096

    Deboer
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    Deboer, firstly Hilary Clinton supporters, sure you can do better than that, that’s plain barmy, I for one couldn’t stand the woman but then I couldn’t stand Trump and still can’t. Our American friends are highly embarrassed  to have him as President but there you go.

    What I meant ( sorry about my devious/mixed up brain) was that the Clinton supporters were so sure that Trump wouldn’t get in, they completely misjudged the feelings of the American voters. We will see , first the EU elections ?  Embarrassed or not , that is democracy . :-)

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    #475112

    Roger Wood
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    Democracy doesn’t stop one being embarrassed at the result. I mention Brexit as another case in mind, how many on here have indeed apologised (or been embarrassed) to French friends about the UK result on leaving the EU?

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    #475122

    Fitter
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    Why does anybody think that Marine le Pen would be “bad” for France?

    Because she has been labelled a “fascist” by the mainstream media? ( That just means anybody who isn’t left or in the middle)

    Did you read the FN manifesto prior to the presidential election? Very few people did.

    I did and it was more socialist than fascist.

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    #475130

    Roger Wood
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    Fitter, her manifesto was nothing like a socialist manifesto. A bit general to say none of us, or very few people read her FN mainifesto. I must have heard her and her party a hundred times on TV in 2017 telling us what they wanted. I’ll put a link on and if you think that is a socialist mainfesto then you really must be joking.  That is a pretty fascist manifesto to me

    https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-france-election-fn-manifesto-factbox/frances-le-pen-sets-out-presidential-election-manifesto-idUKKBN15J00B

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    #475141

    Vegemite Kid
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    I don’t think Marine Le Pen will arrive in the top three after the first round in 2022. Her niece, on the other hand, might well do a lot better – Marion Maréchal (who deliberately dropped the -Le Pen from her double-barreled surname) is a lot smarter, younger, and more plausible than her aunt, as well as being fluent in English, enough to address at least one political rally in America.

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    #475166

    Dom
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