Home Forums Announcements Unacceptable behaviour on this forum

This topic contains 69 replies, has 28 voices, and was last updated by  Futureman 1 week, 2 days ago.

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  • #485693

    Roger Wood
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    #485696

    Pete James
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    #485701

    Fitter
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    anonymouses floating about

    Reading this somewhat pointless thread I was actually going to post something along the lines of:-

    “We are going to need a longer pole to vault over this mouse t*rd”

    But a mouse appeared without a pole courtesy of Koat ;-)

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    #485704

    Roger Wood
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    And one with:-

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    #485707

    Pete James
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    Question  – Are you a pole vaulter ?

    Reply –  No, I am from Estonia, and stop calling me Walter.

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    #485713

    Laurie Driver
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    Hello Admin Paul,

    Like a few others, I was surprised to see Jazzy and Roger ‘yellow carded’ because as far as I was concerned neither of them had said or done or acted in any way they hadn’t done previously on ‘dozens’ of occasions without their conduct ever being questioned by a moderator and for Admin Wizard to decide that what they’d said / done on the ‘Boris’ thread ‘crossed the line’ and warranted them being ‘yellow carded’, well that decision didn’t sit easy with me at all as I felt it highlighted what I’ve thought was the problem with the forum ie, none of us know where ‘the line’ they are supposed to have crossed actually is.

    Clearly there must be a ‘line’ somewhere but for you to say simply,

    “……. here is a summary as to what we, and the majority of our members expect-

    a space to air views and opinions that do not cause offence to other members, or people as a whole. Common sense should tell you what could be construed as “offensive”

    -we as “moderators” would rather be not moderating. The forum should be, and will be, self policing, based on mutual self respect”

    doesn’t really ‘cut it’ for me as what causes offence to one member will seem like perfect common sense to another and because we’re all individuals with completely different levels of tolerance for Admin to rely on ‘the mutual self respect’ aspect seems doomed to fail in the future just as it seems to have done in the past.

    But for me, one of the most illuminating statements of the ‘Boris’ thread came in an exchange between Beatrix and Jazzy because in response to Beatrix saying to Jazzy (bottom of page 9),

    “As for contributing to debates, there is little point if there is always someone whose responses amount to “I know better because I’ve done this, that and the other, so there.” That’s not a debate, just a case of fingers in the ears and intoning, “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!”

    Jazzy responded (top of page 10) saying,

    “C’mon Beatrix, that’s what debates on forums are all about, a bunch of people with differing views who all think they’re right arguing the toss. Why not counter their view instead of just popping up to have a pop? Much more fun that way ……….. ”

    and without being critical of Jazzy, I think the way she views discussions on the forum is different to how the majority of others view them.

    Personally, and I think the majority of other members might feel the same, but when I visit the forum I don’t do so to ‘argue the toss’ with anybody and if somebody says something a bit ‘harsh’ to me, as I and it seems a few others felt Futureman did on Page 6 of the Boris thread, I feel so ‘pi**ed’ that I’ve got to spend time proving to whoever it was (Futureman in this case) that they were wrong or unjustified in what they said and thankfully, maybe because of what the other members had said, even though I had a couple of ‘pops’ at Futureman when I responded it seems he decided to ‘let it go’ because he didn’t take things any further which I was very pleased about because the last thing I want when I visit the forum is to be walking on eggshells thinking that no matter what I say somebody is going to jump in with some nasty comment that will draw me into having to construct a ‘suitable’ response.

    But not everybody is prepared to let things go and Jazzy’s ‘style’, probably because she likes the cut and thrust of the debate and thinks it’s fun (unlike most of the rest of us I think), seems to be to get stuck in and ‘score points’ wherever she can and while from experience I know this can be fun if everybody is of the same frame of mind, I’m not sure most other members of the forum appreciate Jazzy’s occasional ‘get stuck in and take no prisoners’ approach.

    And although he hasn’t admitted it the way Jazzy did, I think Roger might have a similar approach to Jazzy and this leaves me thinking that rather than being nasty or looking for trouble as they often, to me, have appeared to have been they’ve simply been wanting to provoke somebody enough for them to ‘fire back’ at them so a full on debate can then ensue and from my experience of debate societies, the truth doesn’t feature in the debate, the rights and wrongs don’t matter, it’s only the scoring of points and winning the debate that matters and I’m wondering whether at times Jazzy and Roger have just wanted to have a full on debate rather than them being nasty.

    Now whether or not UiB is the right place for such full on debate or not isn’t for me to say but if Admin Wizard has felt Jazzy and Roger overstepped the mark enough to warrant them being yellow carded this leaves me wondering why they haven’t had their cards marked previously when some of the things they’ve said in other discussions have cut much ‘nearer the bone’ than anything they said on the Boris thread.

    But if Admin Wizard thinks Jazzy and Roger ‘crossed the line, well while I respect his opinion on this I really do feel he should be made aware that Jazzy and Roger were only acting the way the moderator has allowed them to act on so many occasions in the past and I feel they’ve both been treated very unfairly by being ‘yellow carded’ ‘out of the blue’ and without warning on this occasion.

    But as all of this discourse stems from Admin leaving the forum to police itself, well as this doesn’t seem to have worked in the past I can’t see it working in the future and as the membership of the forum changes when new people join it seems to me that rather than just leaving us to get on with things and hope for the best it would be better if, when a moderator saw somebody had said something a little harsh, that he asked that member to either clarify / justify their comments or withdraw them.

    I feel that if this were to happen other members who might feel ‘uneasy’ about getting drawn into a ‘full on debate’ would feel more relaxed about joining in knowing they wouldn’t have to accept or respond to any ‘unfair or near the knuckle comments’ somebody else might direct at them and as the moderator would have to intervene on only a couple of occasions a week it wouldn’t take that much time or effort.

    But Admin Paul, I’m sorry to have gone on a bit and I thank you for your time, but the reason I’ve written so much is that I feel that due to the membership of this forum being, in the main, decent, moderate and knowledgeable people it’s usually a nice place to ‘drop in’ and spend a bit of time and have a chat or just ‘listen to what’s going on’ and it’s only on the odd occasion that things get a bit heated.

    But I feel that if a moderator was prepared to let people know they were getting too close to the line or that their comments were a bit too severe or unfair people would soon get to know where the line actually was and the fact that we’d all see the line was being drawn in the same place for everybody it would only improve things. And if any interventions were made on a friendly and ‘informal’ level then surely it would help improve discussions all round.

    When people talk about dogs being ‘out of control’ the general consensus is that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners who don’t let their dogs know what is acceptable and what isn’t and I feel the same applies to a forum. If the moderators don’t let the membership know what isn’t acceptable the membership will keep on going until somebody tells them they’ve gone too far and by then it’s too late.

    Finally, like others, I hope Jazzy reconsiders her decision to leave the forum.

     

     

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    #485721

    Roger Wood
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    Walters cat warming up for da olympics…

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    #485750

    Beatrix
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    An interesting analysis, Laurie Driver, although a bit (very?) wordy. You have encapsulated your point of view in the following paragraph and you could have just left it at that:

    “When people talk about dogs being ‘out of control’ the general consensus is that there are no bad dogs, only bad owners who don’t let their dogs know what is acceptable and what isn’t and I feel the same applies to a forum. If the moderators don’t let the membership know what isn’t acceptable the membership will keep on going until somebody tells them they’ve gone too far and by then it’s too late.”

    Although I disagree with you about there being no bad dogs; that’s possibly a subject for another topic.

    I’ve sent you a PM.

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    #485756

    Jazzy
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    Thanks everyone for your comments. I feel rather humbled and very touched. :rose: :rose:

     

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    #485759

    Vegemite Kid
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    I think Beatrix has a point, LD; succinct is better. I’m sure Admin Paul will consider all that you had to say and reply if he feels it appropriate. I won’t, because I know already that you don’t find me impartial.

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    #485771

    Laurie Driver
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    Admin Paul, in light of what I consider to be smart arsed and unnecessary comments from Beatrix and Vegemite Kid, neither of which could ever be considered by any reasonable person to have been intended to enhance the discussion and could only ever be thought to be intended to ‘have a pop’ at me I’ve given up on UiB and would therefore appreciate it if you would delete the post above that, with the best of intentions, I spent a long time putting together and also delete my account.

    Many thanks.

    Laurie.

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    #485774

    tigre
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    There’s no need for anyone to leave the forum, may be just be more tolerant of other people’s views, especially political.

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    #485777

    Jazzy
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    Laurie Driver. I must say I thought your post very well thought out.

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    #485780

    Laurie Driver
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    Thank you Jazzy. I did try to cover many things that were bothering me, especially what I considered to be the injustice that you and Roger had suffered, but as usually happens on here, some smart arse makes an unnecessary comment that I either have to accept or respond to and as I’ve had enough of responding to smart arses I think I’d just prefer to go.

    But you take care, xx

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    #485787

    Roger Wood
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    #485793

    Vegemite Kid
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    LD, I must say I’m surprised, no, incredulous, that, while you allow yourself the time and the liberty to construct a long post trying to undermine and disparage me on the Boris Johnson thread, two short posts which you say disparage you and that you “consider to be smart arsed and unnecessary comments” have caused you to give up on UIB. That seems like the height of double standards to me. And I can’t really see anything disparaging about Beatrix’s post.

    I won’t delete your account, nor your post, but if Admin Paul or Wizard decide to do so, I won’t argue against their decision.

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    #485811

    Stinky
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    Why announce and flounce?
    Just stop posting.

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    #485836

    Cheekiweeki
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    Laurie Driver, well done and thank you for taking so much time and effort to make your post and I think you hit several issues directly on the ‘bullseye’.

    I don’t want to take up the whole page with a repeat of what you wrote, but from here…………

    [quote quote=485713]But for me, one of the most illuminating statements of the ‘Boris’ thread came in an exchange between Beatrix and Jazzy because in response to Beatrix saying to Jazzy (bottom of page 9),[/quote]

    to here…….  you have outlined the problem so clearly.

    I’m wondering whether at times Jazzy and Roger have just wanted to have a full on debate rather than them being nasty.

    I was surprised to see the unnecessary comment from Beatrix as I assumed that she (?) had left and gone to another site, considering that she sent me a private ‘Suggestion’  that I might like that site better because it is……

    faster moving and has more ACTIVE members participating. I find it quicker loading and better laid out as well, it does exactly as it says on the tin.” 

    The same person suggested to me on an earlier forum subject where I had put my head above the parapet and was fending off the arrows, that as I was not Brittish and evidently, my husband is American, maybe I should remove myself from that forum.  (By the way, my husband is not American.) This is another example of someone overstepping the invisible line – no one, other than a moderator should take it on themselves to suggest that someone should leave. Please let me know ………..   is Beatrix a moderator?

    I say ‘unnecessary’ comment because although Laurie’s ‘analysis’ was long, it was well thought out and thoroughly addressed the problem that this forum conversation is about.

    This type of wording is directed personally at Laurie and I feel it is typical of what should be avoided:-

    although a bit (very?) wordy. You have encapsulated your point of view in the following paragraph and you could have just left it at that:

    She couldn’t have left it at ‘that’ – her post was all very pertinent. If a post is too wordy, one doesn’t have to read it. Roger W pointed out to me on the ‘Boris’ forum that my reply was too long and implied that he wasn’t bothered to read it. Some of us take time and effort and maybe we do write more than some others want to bother to read – well that’s fine, move on, ‘skip’ to the next one, but please don’t insult the person by telling them. There are many others who do appreciate longer input.

    Even VK agrees with Beatrix – everyone entitled to their own opinions, however, again, personally I feel, as a moderator, the wording could be more diplomatic.   Is there an unwritten character limit on posts?  If so and if a member habitually makes posts that are considered to be too long, would it not be ‘nicer’ for the moderator to come on and say (to no one in particular), ‘Hey guys, we love to read what you write but could you try to be a bit more succinct?

    LD, I must say I’m surprised, no, incredulous, that, while you allow yourself the time and the liberty to construct a long post trying to undermine and disparage me on the Boris Johnson thread, two short posts which you say disparage you and that you “consider to be smart arsed and unnecessary comments” have caused you to give up on UIB. That seems like the height of double standards to me. And I can’t really see anything disparaging about Beatrix’s post. I won’t delete your account, nor your post, but if Admin Paul or Wizard decide to do so, I won’t argue against their decision.

    None of this makes sense to me? Why is VK ‘incredulous’?  I don’t see anywhere that Laurie was ‘trying’ to undermine or disparage, she was saying it as it is. These words, ‘allow yourself the time and the liberty’!  This is the kind of sentence that incites.  Finally thrown it back in Laurie’s face that her post ‘won’t be deleted! This person sounds very angry?  Well, I for one am glad that the post was not deleted. I read it several times because it is one of the most ‘common sense’ posts on this forum.

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    #485838

    Cheekiweeki
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    ‘Hacking over ‘he said’ ‘she said’ is tiresome and brings no solution.

    Admin Paul – May I make these suggestions?

    Some people like to play devils advocate and have banter, this can get heated, comments are taken and given personally and we end up on a forum subject such as this one.

    How about:-

    Ban controversial subjects such as Politics and Religion?

    OK – so, that could be boring – these are subjects that some people really like to debate/argue/talk about. Well then, why not give them a room in the Forum for only controversial named subjects? Set out specific rules for this particular room, but not so specific as to gag the writer who will want to express him/herself. Appoint a moderator for that room, or not, just leave them to it, only having someone check it out periodically, to make sure that there is no bloodletting. LOL

    A possible problem with this is that there will be members who would like to make a comment about something connected to a controversial subject but don’t want to get into a harangue with others. Could this be in another ‘room’ with the heading ‘No Response’?  Again, specific rules set out, one of which would be that a member posts his/her opinion or thoughts BUT response is not allowed.

    In this way, there is a room for those who want to debate and argue their point about whatever they like, and there is a room for those who just simply want to say what they feel without being attacked or getting into the situation of having to justify or defend themselves.

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    #485845

    Pete James
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    C/w wrote – “Ban controversial subjects such as Politics and Religion?”

    Nothing should be banned from a public forum however unpopular it may be. The bounds of decency should be respected and one would hope  members would be responsable enough to self-police the subject matter accordingly. Sometimes certain members feel it fine to over step the mark and that’s where the mod should step in, not by issuing yellow or red cards but by first deleting the offensive post with a message replacing it saying something like “This post was deleted as it overstepped the mark and action will be taken if such behaviour continues” etc etc

    Some members do indeed play Devil’s Advocate, I certainly do at times to provoke a reaction but I do try to remain fairly polite without causing direct offence.  Others, who in some cases are past banned members ressurected under different avatars just enjoy stirring the s*** to spoil the enjoyment of others.

    I have in the past, suggested a Room 101 where anything goes but forum no has yet had the cajones to put it in place.

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    #485850

    Deboer
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    Life is what happens to you while you are busy making other plans ?

    Getting very boring now !

    Axes being ground.

    By the way Cheekiweeki , Laurie Driver is a man that worked down a coal mine with 1000 other men . :-)

     

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    #485857

    john
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    By the way Cheekiweeki , Laurie Driver is a man that worked down a coal mine with 1000 other men .

      made me laugh DeBoer  B-) .

    C/w wrote – “Ban controversial subjects such as Politics and Religion?” PJ is correct , dont ban anything.

    How have you all so much time for this school play ground rubbish, it reads like the MP`s shambles in Westminster :whistle: :whistle: ,,,, does make interesting reading though over a good cup of Breton Coffee. :good:

     

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    #485862

    John P
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    It pains me to see this forum once more dragged down to sniping at each other. One of the pleasures of this site is the relative freedom allowed to discuss things. There is warmth, friendship, knowledge and help abounding here but every now and again it is clouded by members opinions being questioned at a personal level.

    The moderators here(and on most forums) are up for a thankless task. They are dammed if they don’t step in and accused of over-reacting when they do. Some members are very quick to criticize the mods but no one is in the queue offering to do the job. This is a free forum, we are not asked to contribute anything towards the work involved in running it, we are just asked to stick to the rules, is that so unfair?

    Now surely we can agree to keep the personal comments out of it when discussing opinions. If we didn’t have differences of opinion there would be nothing to discuss and places like this would be very dull. There are some great people on here and it is such a shame that we cannot rub along together, at the end of the day it is all down to respect for other members opinions and for those who have the thankless task of trying to keep things on track.

    There is no need for anyone to leave, let us draw a line under the last few days and make a fresh start keeping personal comments out of the discussions, it is really that simple isn’t it?  :unsure:   :-)

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    #485871

    Roger Wood
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    I agree with Pete and that flipping Eagles supporter (just joshing John ;-) ),

    In fact as I have to said in the past, not on here but in discussions with friends and foes :”

    “less said, soonest mended”

    Some are now taking on the role of headmaster, mistress and lecturing us in the way they believe it should work and how we should all act, including scrutinisng others posts. Lots of hypocracy flying around and it’s going nowhere. We have Admin and Mods, best leave it to them now and move on.

    Don’t know about you lot but I reckon the coast beckons for a few days. Toodle pip….

     

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    #485877

    Shapeshifter
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    I am always puzzled by people who appear to live for debate and controversy.  FFS if you don’t like a forum bugger off and find a different one.  Stir the muck elsewhere with more like minded types. B-)

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    #485885

    Pete James
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    I agree with Pete and that flipping Eagles supporter (just joshing John ;-) ), In fact as I have to said in the past, not on here but in discussions with friends and foes :” “less said, soonest mended” Some are now taking on the role of headmaster, mistress and lecturing us in the way they believe it should work and how we should all act, including scrutinisng others posts. Lots of hypocracy flying around and it’s going nowhere. We have Admin and Mods, best leave it to them now and move on. Don’t know about you lot but I reckon the coast beckons for a few days. Toodle pip….

    Not his fault he’s a Palace fan, don’t mock the afflicted ! :cry:

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    #485899

    Fruitcake
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    I couldn’t agree more John P! Why grown people need to have special rooms to discuss certain subjects and why there is such a lot of chat about it I do not understand.  As JP says; –

    There is no need for anyone to leave, let us draw a line under the last few days and make a fresh start keeping personal comments out of the discussions, it is really that simple, isn’t it?

    Surely it should be just that simple?

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    #486144

    Radon
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    Why announce and flounce? Just stop posting.

    oh dear!

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    #486235

    Fitter
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    I am always puzzled by people who appear to live for debate and controversy. FFS if you don’t like a forum bugger off and find a different one. Stir the muck elsewhere with more like minded types. B-)

    But if the forum you choose is full of “like minded types” – where are you going to find an argument?

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    #486269

    Admin Paul
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    Morning guys and girls,

    Here is my final piece on this discussion. Fruitcake’s posting of July 5th sums it up. No need for special rooms, no need for anyone to leave, and no room for personal attacks.  It really is that simple.

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