This topic contains 21 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  Marmite 6 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #426592

    Beatrix
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    We’re watching a programme on veganism at the moment and, while there are certain abattoir practices that are shocking, I think the vegans want us to go too far. Do we stop milking cows, shearing sheep and collecting the eggs that hens lay naturally? And if so, what do we do with those animals? Because vegans don’t want ANYTHING at all that comes from animals. Where do they want us to draw the line?

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    #426600

    Anonymous
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    The Yorkshire Dales wouldn’t look like they do without the animal stock retaining walls. They try to tell you that they don’t have vitamin B12 deficiencies without supplements. Whenever Vegans start ask them if they have any leather shoes!

    They think that they are evangelists but to me they can eat what they want but don’t try to convert other folk to their, in my opinion, quirky lifestyle.

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    #426601

    Anonymous
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    Hi Beatrix I eat 3 or 4 vegetarian meals a week, luckily in France most abbatoirs are local, so transportation of live animals, is not the problem it is in England, if everyone went over to Veganism the only Farm animals you would see, would be in Zoo,s, which would be a sad day, as long as welfare standards are adhered to, then I do not have a problem with that, incidently all abbatoirs in the EU England included, have to have a resident vet, at present 90% of the Vets at English Abatoirs come from the other EU countries,  the Food Standards Agency state they are loosing up to 20 Vets a Month since Brexit, they are paid less than the Proposed Government threshold after Brexit of £33,000 a Year for Skilled workers

    Did you know that French farmers are paid less per head in subsidies than their UK counterparts.

    I am now a Semi retired Farmer in France,all registered  and just love the place

     

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    #426602

    Anonymous
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    Oh no! The dreaded UK/France comparison! :negative:

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    #426615

    Marmite
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    Dilligaf seems very well informed.

    the latest abattoir scandal here is just the last in a long line…there is a problem.

    to be killed is bad enough ..at least do it humanely.

    i should be a vegetarian as I could never kill an animal..even my chickens died of old age.

     

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    #426623

    Anonymous
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    Why can,t we compare England to France

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    #426633

    Anonymous
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    And thinks everyone that the French Farmers get the most in subsidies when it turns out the English get more, so why not compare it.

    Marmite I’m like you I do eat meat but can’t kill my own chickens, the oldest I’ve kept got to 14 years.

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    #426635

    Roger Wood
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    We know a few vegans, their choice of course but none would ever dream of wearing leather shoes…

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    #426638

    Anonymous
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    By Definition if they wear leather shoes they are not Vegans??

     

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    #426652

    Vegemite Kid
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    Wherever you get your information, dilligaf, I can reliably confirm that at the chicken abattoir where I work there is no resident vet. Although the DSV (Direction des Services Vétérinaires) do make occasional inspections, they are pre-arranged, so everyone knows they’re coming on a particular day.

    I think Beatrix was watching the same program that I saw last night, where the vegans (who can’t even agree on the French spelling, it’s either végan or végane) justify their attacks on butchers’ shops as anti speciesism, because animals are individuals, too. And vitamin B12 deficiencies in their diets were covered as well, equally the manufacturing of non-leather footwear and similar products.

    But what do they say to the Africans, who have little alternatives to meat, or the Muslims, who kill sheep and goats at pertinent moments in their religious calendar? Is it one rule for the West and another for the rest? New Zealand is not going to stop sheep production at the whim of a few, relatively speaking, well-meaning but misguided people. Mankind has been eating meat, red, white, and otherwise, since the dawn of time, it’s not going to change now.

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    #426669

    Anonymous
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    By Definition if they wear leather shoes they are not Vegans??

    Where does leather come from? Slaughtered animals which the vegans will have nothing to do with. :unsure:

    An entertaining read. If nothing else read the second line under the capitals!

    veganism ;-)

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    #426731

    Fruitcake
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    Personally my biggest issue is with cruelty to animals, if it’s kept humanely and killed humanely I have no problem with eating it, having said that I fight with my conscience each time we eat the pork and chicken that, due to economy, we mainly live on, as I know full well that the pigs and chickens are not kept in what I would consider a humane way, so to that end I am a hypocrite.

    I have no problem with eating vegetarian food but there is no way I could become a vegan as I like too many of the by-products of animals (eggs, cheese, cream, milk, lard for pastry etc) and fish. It must be extremely difficult to stick to.

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    #426760

    BartyB
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    I’m quietly amused that avocados, almonds, melon, kiwi and butternut squash amongst others are seldom truly vegan as hives of bees are transported from farm to farm to pollinate them. Thus exploiting the bees but as said, where do you draw the line?

    I’m at a loss to understand the thinking behind being a dairy eating vegetarian as a by product of milk is baby cows and unless the world is to be overrun with cows then one way or another baby (either very young as veal or after a couple of years as beef) and ancient cows must be killed. I’m equally bemused by meat eaters that refuse to eat veal  altho I think the traditional production methods suck.

    I once heard a vegan activist being interviewed and he said “people often tell me “I’d be a vegan except for bacon sandwiched” to which I reply “then be a vegan that eats bacon sandwiches if that’s as far as you feel able to go, it’s not perfect but it’s better than nothing””……. and that man went soaring up in my estimation!!

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    #426762

    Roger Wood
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    By Definition if they wear leather shoes they are not Vegans??

    Where does leather come from? Slaughtered animals which the vegans will have nothing to do with. :unsure: An entertaining read. If nothing else read the second line under the capitals! veganism ;-)

    As I said before, I know vegans and not one would ever wear a leather pair of shoes. Why do you insist they do?

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    #426791

    Jazzy
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    An interesting viewpoint from a farmer about the ecological affects if everyone went vegan.

    Vegan

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    #426814

    Fruitcake
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    What an interesting article Jazzy, what she is saying really makes sense as far as the environment is concerned and for the animal’s welfare.

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    #426847

    Anonymous
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    What it all boils down to is……..

    ‘Each to their own’

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    #426863

    John James
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    Jazzy – It’s an interesting article, but in practice, very few farmers are in a position to earn a living in this way. This particular farm is, even by today’s standards, a very good size and, because of where it is and thus its value, it will always underpin any experimental losses.

    Realistically, very few people would be able to afford to pay an economic price for their produce and so they are catering for a very small minority market which can be fickle at the best of times.

    The true facts dictate that people need to be fed and this has to be done as economically as possible. A very large percentage of our nutritional needs are imported and if agriculture were to, effectively, turn the clock backwards, these imports would increase immeasurably and the overall cost of feeding the nation would go up alongside.

    People have strong feelings about all manner of things, a lot of which is now media fed and, at the moment, the focus does seem very much to be on diet. If you have strong feelings about animal welfare and are prepared to change the way that you eat, then that’s fine.

    However, if this change were to have a detrimental effect on your overall health, then the whole “raison d’etre” would have been missed and you would find yourself in a difficult position.

    Personally, I’ve  always believed that to stay healthy, you need to have a balanced diet. White meat, plenty of fish, fresh vegetables and seasonal fruit have served well over the years and thus there is absolutely no reason to change.

    As an aside, I see in the paper today that a record number of restaurants have gone out of business this year and the main casualties are the ones that are trying to cater for the ever increasing vagaries of the customers’ likes and dislikes. This must say something.

     

     

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    #427043

    Fruitcake
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    Very good points JJ  :yes:

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    #427083

    Anonymous
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    Heard on BBC1 this morning. How do you upset a vegan via email? Send them some Spam! :yahoo:

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    #427172

    Blue velvet
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    My son is vegetarian  he comes at Christmas, I cook him vegi sausage rolls,plus vegetarian ‘meat’ with all the vegs, roast spuds, stuffing etc.plus ofcourse Yorkshire puds, etc.  Other days there is risotto, Italian pasta meals etc. He has his beliefs which I respect and it’s no problem to me. Plus loads of chocolate mousse,etc!  Each to their own.

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    #427213

    Marmite
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    Absolutely bv….I,m happy to eat a veggie diet ,then I yearn for a steak…don’t think we,ve had meat for a couple of days…but we don’t make a thing out of it..

    I. once left mr m for a few days ,my daughter had a broken ankle…after a week there was a plaintiff call”are you coming home soon?I’m constipated”,apparently he blamed it on two packets of tofu that were   Sitting in the fridge, that he finally ate.

    .I think a broad spectrum healthy diet consists of a little of everything including meat.

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